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Re RAW conversion

Message-ID:<gcsqgc$53o$1@registered.motzarella.org>
Subject:

Re: RAW conversion

Date:Sun, 12 Oct 2008 14:27:57 +0100


tyler wrote,on my timestamp of 12/10/2008 4:07 AM:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm trying to import some Nikon RAW photos into Gimp using UFraw. I'm
> having a really hard time getting the color balance right, as what I see
> in UFraw when I hit 'OK' is substantially more subdued than what shows
> up in Gimp shortly after. I have to make the UFRaw image look much
> duller than what I want, because the colors in GIMP become much more
> garish. Is there some way to calibrate UFRaw so that it will give me the
> same colors as what I'm going to see when I get the photo into GIMP?
> 
> My only option at this point is to tweak the UFRaw settings, and then
> import the photo to GIMP, where I find out how far off the colors are,
> then try and fix the UFRaw settings and repeat. This is extremely
> tedious.
> 
> Thanks for any tips,


What you have to do is quite the opposite: profile the
colour of GIMP to match what you are sending from ufraw.

Check what profile your camera is using, usually it's one
of srgb or adobe1998.  Then set the corresponding profile in
GIMP for opening and screen handling and you're away.

Message-ID:<874p3hioc5.fld@apaflo.com>
Subject:

Re: RAW conversion

Date:Sun, 12 Oct 2008 20:51:38 +0100

tyler <tyler.smith@mail.mcgill.ca> wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I'm trying to import some Nikon RAW photos into Gimp using UFraw. I'm
>having a really hard time getting the color balance right, as what I see
>in UFraw when I hit 'OK' is substantially more subdued than what shows
>up in Gimp shortly after. I have to make the UFRaw image look much
>duller than what I want, because the colors in GIMP become much more
>garish. Is there some way to calibrate UFRaw so that it will give me the
>same colors as what I'm going to see when I get the photo into GIMP?
>
>My only option at this point is to tweak the UFRaw settings, and then
>import the photo to GIMP, where I find out how far off the colors are,
>then try and fix the UFRaw settings and repeat. This is extremely
>tedious.
>
>Thanks for any tips,

You've got a problem with color profiles, and the information
provided above doesn't really tell us exactly where.

What profiles do you have UFRAW set for?  It probably makes no
difference which "Input ICC Profile" you use.  (It changes what
you have, but you'll see the change in UFRAW and adjust
accordingly.  No profile is good if the camera is set to sRGB.
Likewise a camera specific profile can be useful if you want
customized results.  Matrix can produce interesting results too.
Selection of these are a decision you'll make for each and every
input image!)

The "Output" profile should be either sRGB or aRGB, though
unless you actually know what you are doing and have a reason to
select aRGB, the only reasonable choice is sRGB (and obviously
that fits this situation).

In UFRAW you also want to set the "Output intent" to Perceptual.

Note that I'm using the bleeding edge version of UFRAW from the
development thread...  and if you have the release version
(0.13?) I'm not sure how these were labeled back then.  If you
can't find it, say so an I'll install an older version and take
a look.

Next you have to set color management in GIMP to match what you
used with UFRAW.  (Again, with GIMP we could have a version
mismatch between what you are using and what I give as examples.
This describes the latest release of the GIMP, version 2.6.1,
and may not exactly match a 2.4 version and certainly will not
match a 2.2 or earlier version of GIMP.)

In GIMP, go to the <Image>/Edit/Preferences/Color Management
menu.

For "Mode of Operation", take your pick...  Print simulation if
you are doing prints and have profiles for you paper/printer
combination; or choose between "Color managed display" and no
color management depending on what you have and which looks best
to you (this is basically a per image configuration issue that
depends on whether the final result is intended to be displayed
as a print or on a computer monitor).

Then select an RGB profile, a CMYK profile, a Monitor Profile,
and a Print simulation profile according to what you have
available.

Note that the "Monitor profile" selection may cause what you see
on the monitor to be different in GIMP than what you see when
viewing an image with other programs.  I would *highly* suggest
that such configuration be avoided.  View an image side by side
with "xv" and GIMP, and match them.  (That means you also need
to have a properly adjusted monitor to start with, or everything
will be off.)

The "RGB profile" can be any of the standard sRGB profiles.
Monitor profile can be one specific to your monitor, or just a
standard sRGB profile.  The CMYK and Print simulation profiles
should be paper profiles.

Set both "Display rendering intent" and "Softproof rendering
intent" to Perceptual.  And set "File open behavior" to "Convert
to RGB workspace".

That may not be precisely the configuration that _you_ need or
want to work with.  For example, if you have a calibrated
monitor and can produce calibrated profiles for your printer and
the papers you use, it would probably be best to shift to aRGB
when editing for prints.  The results will not display correctly
with /xv/, but you'll be able to print more accurately.

But that configuration is one that will work as a baseline to
start from.

-- 
Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)              floyd@apaflo.com

Message-ID:<878wssmv15.fsf@blackbart.sedgenet>
Subject:

Re: RAW conversion

Date:Mon, 13 Oct 2008 15:25:42 +0100


floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) writes:

> tyler <tyler.smith@mail.mcgill.ca> wrote:
>>Hi,
>>
>>I'm trying to import some Nikon RAW photos into Gimp using UFraw. I'm
>>having a really hard time getting the color balance right, as what I see
>>in UFraw when I hit 'OK' is substantially more subdued than what shows
>>up in Gimp shortly after. 
>
> You've got a problem with color profiles, and the information
> provided above doesn't really tell us exactly where.

Thanks for the help!

I now have an acceptable fix, based on the advice received here, but it
will take me a while to process all the information.

I have UFRaw set to use my camera's (Nikon D80) input profile, and sRGB
as the output profile, with 'perceptual' output intent. I then opened up
the colour management dialog in GIMP, and after some experimenting,
determined that changing the monitor profile to match the rgb profile
(both now set to Adobe RGB 1988) produces an image that (nearly) matches
the UFRaw version. I note that Floyd suggested not to do this:

> Note that the "Monitor profile" selection may cause what you see
> on the monitor to be different in GIMP than what you see when
> viewing an image with other programs.  I would *highly* suggest
> that such configuration be avoided.  View an image side by side
> with "xv" and GIMP, and match them.  (That means you also need
> to have a properly adjusted monitor to start with, or everything
> will be off.)

I'm not sure what this means: how do I 'match' them?

Anyways, things look much better, and I'll continue researching this to
try and understand it better.

Cheers,

Tyler

>
> What profiles do you have UFRAW set for?  It probably makes no
> difference which "Input ICC Profile" you use.  (It changes what
> you have, but you'll see the change in UFRAW and adjust
> accordingly.  No profile is good if the camera is set to sRGB.
> Likewise a camera specific profile can be useful if you want
> customized results.  Matrix can produce interesting results too.
> Selection of these are a decision you'll make for each and every
> input image!)
>
> The "Output" profile should be either sRGB or aRGB, though
> unless you actually know what you are doing and have a reason to
> select aRGB, the only reasonable choice is sRGB (and obviously
> that fits this situation).
>
> In UFRAW you also want to set the "Output intent" to Perceptual.
>
> Note that I'm using the bleeding edge version of UFRAW from the
> development thread...  and if you have the release version
> (0.13?) I'm not sure how these were labeled back then.  If you
> can't find it, say so an I'll install an older version and take
> a look.
>
> Next you have to set color management in GIMP to match what you
> used with UFRAW.  (Again, with GIMP we could have a version
> mismatch between what you are using and what I give as examples.
> This describes the latest release of the GIMP, version 2.6.1,
> and may not exactly match a 2.4 version and certainly will not
> match a 2.2 or earlier version of GIMP.)
>
> In GIMP, go to the <Image>/Edit/Preferences/Color Management
> menu.
>
> For "Mode of Operation", take your pick...  Print simulation if
> you are doing prints and have profiles for you paper/printer
> combination; or choose between "Color managed display" and no
> color management depending on what you have and which looks best
> to you (this is basically a per image configuration issue that
> depends on whether the final result is intended to be displayed
> as a print or on a computer monitor).
>
> Then select an RGB profile, a CMYK profile, a Monitor Profile,
> and a Print simulation profile according to what you have
> available.
>
>
> The "RGB profile" can be any of the standard sRGB profiles.
> Monitor profile can be one specific to your monitor, or just a
> standard sRGB profile.  The CMYK and Print simulation profiles
> should be paper profiles.
>
> Set both "Display rendering intent" and "Softproof rendering
> intent" to Perceptual.  And set "File open behavior" to "Convert
> to RGB workspace".
>
> That may not be precisely the configuration that _you_ need or
> want to work with.  For example, if you have a calibrated
> monitor and can produce calibrated profiles for your printer and
> the papers you use, it would probably be best to shift to aRGB
> when editing for prints.  The results will not display correctly
> with /xv/, but you'll be able to print more accurately.
>
> But that configuration is one that will work as a baseline to
> start from.

--

Message-ID:<gd4mlg$n71$1@registered.motzarella.org>
Subject:

Re: RAW conversion

Date:Wed, 15 Oct 2008 14:11:33 +0100

tyler wrote,on my timestamp of 14/10/2008 12:25 AM:
> floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) writes:
> 
>> tyler <tyler.smith@mail.mcgill.ca> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I'm trying to import some Nikon RAW photos into Gimp using UFraw. I'm
>>> having a really hard time getting the color balance right, as what I see
>>> in UFraw when I hit 'OK' is substantially more subdued than what shows
>>> up in Gimp shortly after. 
>> You've got a problem with color profiles, and the information
>> provided above doesn't really tell us exactly where.
> 
> Thanks for the help!
> 
> I now have an acceptable fix, based on the advice received here, but it
> will take me a while to process all the information.
> 
> I have UFRaw set to use my camera's (Nikon D80) input profile, and sRGB
> as the output profile, with 'perceptual' output intent. I then opened up
> the colour management dialog in GIMP, and after some experimenting,
> determined that changing the monitor profile to match the rgb profile
> (both now set to Adobe RGB 1988) produces an image that (nearly) matches
> the UFRaw version. I note that Floyd suggested not to do this:
> 
>> Note that the "Monitor profile" selection may cause what you see
>> on the monitor to be different in GIMP than what you see when
>> viewing an image with other programs.  I would *highly* suggest
>> that such configuration be avoided.  View an image side by side
>> with "xv" and GIMP, and match them.  (That means you also need
>> to have a properly adjusted monitor to start with, or everything
>> will be off.)
> 
> I'm not sure what this means: how do I 'match' them?
> 
> Anyways, things look much better, and I'll continue researching this to
> try and understand it better.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Tyler
> 

Tyler, all workflow components need to be defined for colour
management.  That means the camera, the editor, the monitor
and even the printer, if you intend to print at home.
You can set each to its own profile, in which case you incur
the overhead of a conversion for every step, or you can set
groups of them or the lot to the same profile(s).
I use AdobeRGB for the simple reason it's the best solution
for my specific printer. But the usual for PCs is sRGB: a much
reduced colour profile that seems to match historically the
various monitors available for pcs.  Of course, if you have
a modern lcd quality monitor, you don't have to use sRGB:
there are better options.

But in a nutshell, the important thing is: if you profile
one element of your chain of workflow, you need to profile
all of them.  The monitor is just the last one but also
very important - after all, it's how you see the images!
So, profile it.  This is done in the desktop, right-click,
pick "properties"=>"Settings" tab=>"Advanced" button=>
"Colour management" tab, button "Add".
This will allow you to add a profile to your monitor.

There may be some profiles already loaded in the system and
you can select one that does for example sRGB. Or Adobe.  Or
whatever, provided it gives your system something to aim at.
In Gimp, make sure what you select for display profile matches
the profile in your desktop Settings.

If you do not have any profiles loaded in your system, have
a look in any cd that came with your monitor and see if there
are any files with extensions ".icm" and/or "icc": those are
colour profiles.  If you don't have a cd, try the website
of the display maker.  The name portion of the files is
usually a clincher for what type of profile they are.
Copy them to your Windows folder, in
<drive>:\WINDOWS\system32\spool\drivers\color
and they will be visible to the desktop Settings colour
management "Add" button.

HTH

Message-ID:<gcsqgc$53o$1@registered.motzarella.org>
Subject:

Re: RAW conversion

Date:Sun, 12 Oct 2008 14:27:57 +0100


tyler wrote,on my timestamp of 12/10/2008 4:07 AM:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm trying to import some Nikon RAW photos into Gimp using UFraw. I'm
> having a really hard time getting the color balance right, as what I see
> in UFraw when I hit 'OK' is substantially more subdued than what shows
> up in Gimp shortly after. I have to make the UFRaw image look much
> duller than what I want, because the colors in GIMP become much more
> garish. Is there some way to calibrate UFRaw so that it will give me the
> same colors as what I'm going to see when I get the photo into GIMP?
> 
> My only option at this point is to tweak the UFRaw settings, and then
> import the photo to GIMP, where I find out how far off the colors are,
> then try and fix the UFRaw settings and repeat. This is extremely
> tedious.
> 
> Thanks for any tips,


What you have to do is quite the opposite: profile the
colour of GIMP to match what you are sending from ufraw.

Check what profile your camera is using, usually it's one
of srgb or adobe1998.  Then set the corresponding profile in
GIMP for opening and screen handling and you're away.

Message-ID:<874p3hioc5.fld@apaflo.com>
Subject:

Re: RAW conversion

Date:Sun, 12 Oct 2008 20:51:38 +0100

tyler <tyler.smith@mail.mcgill.ca> wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I'm trying to import some Nikon RAW photos into Gimp using UFraw. I'm
>having a really hard time getting the color balance right, as what I see
>in UFraw when I hit 'OK' is substantially more subdued than what shows
>up in Gimp shortly after. I have to make the UFRaw image look much
>duller than what I want, because the colors in GIMP become much more
>garish. Is there some way to calibrate UFRaw so that it will give me the
>same colors as what I'm going to see when I get the photo into GIMP?
>
>My only option at this point is to tweak the UFRaw settings, and then
>import the photo to GIMP, where I find out how far off the colors are,
>then try and fix the UFRaw settings and repeat. This is extremely
>tedious.
>
>Thanks for any tips,

You've got a problem with color profiles, and the information
provided above doesn't really tell us exactly where.

What profiles do you have UFRAW set for?  It probably makes no
difference which "Input ICC Profile" you use.  (It changes what
you have, but you'll see the change in UFRAW and adjust
accordingly.  No profile is good if the camera is set to sRGB.
Likewise a camera specific profile can be useful if you want
customized results.  Matrix can produce interesting results too.
Selection of these are a decision you'll make for each and every
input image!)

The "Output" profile should be either sRGB or aRGB, though
unless you actually know what you are doing and have a reason to
select aRGB, the only reasonable choice is sRGB (and obviously
that fits this situation).

In UFRAW you also want to set the "Output intent" to Perceptual.

Note that I'm using the bleeding edge version of UFRAW from the
development thread...  and if you have the release version
(0.13?) I'm not sure how these were labeled back then.  If you
can't find it, say so an I'll install an older version and take
a look.

Next you have to set color management in GIMP to match what you
used with UFRAW.  (Again, with GIMP we could have a version
mismatch between what you are using and what I give as examples.
This describes the latest release of the GIMP, version 2.6.1,
and may not exactly match a 2.4 version and certainly will not
match a 2.2 or earlier version of GIMP.)

In GIMP, go to the <Image>/Edit/Preferences/Color Management
menu.

For "Mode of Operation", take your pick...  Print simulation if
you are doing prints and have profiles for you paper/printer
combination; or choose between "Color managed display" and no
color management depending on what you have and which looks best
to you (this is basically a per image configuration issue that
depends on whether the final result is intended to be displayed
as a print or on a computer monitor).

Then select an RGB profile, a CMYK profile, a Monitor Profile,
and a Print simulation profile according to what you have
available.

Note that the "Monitor profile" selection may cause what you see
on the monitor to be different in GIMP than what you see when
viewing an image with other programs.  I would *highly* suggest
that such configuration be avoided.  View an image side by side
with "xv" and GIMP, and match them.  (That means you also need
to have a properly adjusted monitor to start with, or everything
will be off.)

The "RGB profile" can be any of the standard sRGB profiles.
Monitor profile can be one specific to your monitor, or just a
standard sRGB profile.  The CMYK and Print simulation profiles
should be paper profiles.

Set both "Display rendering intent" and "Softproof rendering
intent" to Perceptual.  And set "File open behavior" to "Convert
to RGB workspace".

That may not be precisely the configuration that _you_ need or
want to work with.  For example, if you have a calibrated
monitor and can produce calibrated profiles for your printer and
the papers you use, it would probably be best to shift to aRGB
when editing for prints.  The results will not display correctly
with /xv/, but you'll be able to print more accurately.

But that configuration is one that will work as a baseline to
start from.

-- 
Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)              floyd@apaflo.com

Message-ID:<878wssmv15.fsf@blackbart.sedgenet>
Subject:

Re: RAW conversion

Date:Mon, 13 Oct 2008 15:25:42 +0100


floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) writes:

> tyler <tyler.smith@mail.mcgill.ca> wrote:
>>Hi,
>>
>>I'm trying to import some Nikon RAW photos into Gimp using UFraw. I'm
>>having a really hard time getting the color balance right, as what I see
>>in UFraw when I hit 'OK' is substantially more subdued than what shows
>>up in Gimp shortly after. 
>
> You've got a problem with color profiles, and the information
> provided above doesn't really tell us exactly where.

Thanks for the help!

I now have an acceptable fix, based on the advice received here, but it
will take me a while to process all the information.

I have UFRaw set to use my camera's (Nikon D80) input profile, and sRGB
as the output profile, with 'perceptual' output intent. I then opened up
the colour management dialog in GIMP, and after some experimenting,
determined that changing the monitor profile to match the rgb profile
(both now set to Adobe RGB 1988) produces an image that (nearly) matches
the UFRaw version. I note that Floyd suggested not to do this:

> Note that the "Monitor profile" selection may cause what you see
> on the monitor to be different in GIMP than what you see when
> viewing an image with other programs.  I would *highly* suggest
> that such configuration be avoided.  View an image side by side
> with "xv" and GIMP, and match them.  (That means you also need
> to have a properly adjusted monitor to start with, or everything
> will be off.)

I'm not sure what this means: how do I 'match' them?

Anyways, things look much better, and I'll continue researching this to
try and understand it better.

Cheers,

Tyler

>
> What profiles do you have UFRAW set for?  It probably makes no
> difference which "Input ICC Profile" you use.  (It changes what
> you have, but you'll see the change in UFRAW and adjust
> accordingly.  No profile is good if the camera is set to sRGB.
> Likewise a camera specific profile can be useful if you want
> customized results.  Matrix can produce interesting results too.
> Selection of these are a decision you'll make for each and every
> input image!)
>
> The "Output" profile should be either sRGB or aRGB, though
> unless you actually know what you are doing and have a reason to
> select aRGB, the only reasonable choice is sRGB (and obviously
> that fits this situation).
>
> In UFRAW you also want to set the "Output intent" to Perceptual.
>
> Note that I'm using the bleeding edge version of UFRAW from the
> development thread...  and if you have the release version
> (0.13?) I'm not sure how these were labeled back then.  If you
> can't find it, say so an I'll install an older version and take
> a look.
>
> Next you have to set color management in GIMP to match what you
> used with UFRAW.  (Again, with GIMP we could have a version
> mismatch between what you are using and what I give as examples.
> This describes the latest release of the GIMP, version 2.6.1,
> and may not exactly match a 2.4 version and certainly will not
> match a 2.2 or earlier version of GIMP.)
>
> In GIMP, go to the <Image>/Edit/Preferences/Color Management
> menu.
>
> For "Mode of Operation", take your pick...  Print simulation if
> you are doing prints and have profiles for you paper/printer
> combination; or choose between "Color managed display" and no
> color management depending on what you have and which looks best
> to you (this is basically a per image configuration issue that
> depends on whether the final result is intended to be displayed
> as a print or on a computer monitor).
>
> Then select an RGB profile, a CMYK profile, a Monitor Profile,
> and a Print simulation profile according to what you have
> available.
>
>
> The "RGB profile" can be any of the standard sRGB profiles.
> Monitor profile can be one specific to your monitor, or just a
> standard sRGB profile.  The CMYK and Print simulation profiles
> should be paper profiles.
>
> Set both "Display rendering intent" and "Softproof rendering
> intent" to Perceptual.  And set "File open behavior" to "Convert
> to RGB workspace".
>
> That may not be precisely the configuration that _you_ need or
> want to work with.  For example, if you have a calibrated
> monitor and can produce calibrated profiles for your printer and
> the papers you use, it would probably be best to shift to aRGB
> when editing for prints.  The results will not display correctly
> with /xv/, but you'll be able to print more accurately.
>
> But that configuration is one that will work as a baseline to
> start from.

--

Message-ID:<gd4mlg$n71$1@registered.motzarella.org>
Subject:

Re: RAW conversion

Date:Wed, 15 Oct 2008 14:11:33 +0100

tyler wrote,on my timestamp of 14/10/2008 12:25 AM:
> floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) writes:
> 
>> tyler <tyler.smith@mail.mcgill.ca> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I'm trying to import some Nikon RAW photos into Gimp using UFraw. I'm
>>> having a really hard time getting the color balance right, as what I see
>>> in UFraw when I hit 'OK' is substantially more subdued than what shows
>>> up in Gimp shortly after. 
>> You've got a problem with color profiles, and the information
>> provided above doesn't really tell us exactly where.
> 
> Thanks for the help!
> 
> I now have an acceptable fix, based on the advice received here, but it
> will take me a while to process all the information.
> 
> I have UFRaw set to use my camera's (Nikon D80) input profile, and sRGB
> as the output profile, with 'perceptual' output intent. I then opened up
> the colour management dialog in GIMP, and after some experimenting,
> determined that changing the monitor profile to match the rgb profile
> (both now set to Adobe RGB 1988) produces an image that (nearly) matches
> the UFRaw version. I note that Floyd suggested not to do this:
> 
>> Note that the "Monitor profile" selection may cause what you see
>> on the monitor to be different in GIMP than what you see when
>> viewing an image with other programs.  I would *highly* suggest
>> that such configuration be avoided.  View an image side by side
>> with "xv" and GIMP, and match them.  (That means you also need
>> to have a properly adjusted monitor to start with, or everything
>> will be off.)
> 
> I'm not sure what this means: how do I 'match' them?
> 
> Anyways, things look much better, and I'll continue researching this to
> try and understand it better.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Tyler
> 

Tyler, all workflow components need to be defined for colour
management.  That means the camera, the editor, the monitor
and even the printer, if you intend to print at home.
You can set each to its own profile, in which case you incur
the overhead of a conversion for every step, or you can set
groups of them or the lot to the same profile(s).
I use AdobeRGB for the simple reason it's the best solution
for my specific printer. But the usual for PCs is sRGB: a much
reduced colour profile that seems to match historically the
various monitors available for pcs.  Of course, if you have
a modern lcd quality monitor, you don't have to use sRGB:
there are better options.

But in a nutshell, the important thing is: if you profile
one element of your chain of workflow, you need to profile
all of them.  The monitor is just the last one but also
very important - after all, it's how you see the images!
So, profile it.  This is done in the desktop, right-click,
pick "properties"=>"Settings" tab=>"Advanced" button=>
"Colour management" tab, button "Add".
This will allow you to add a profile to your monitor.

There may be some profiles already loaded in the system and
you can select one that does for example sRGB. Or Adobe.  Or
whatever, provided it gives your system something to aim at.
In Gimp, make sure what you select for display profile matches
the profile in your desktop Settings.

If you do not have any profiles loaded in your system, have
a look in any cd that came with your monitor and see if there
are any files with extensions ".icm" and/or "icc": those are
colour profiles.  If you don't have a cd, try the website
of the display maker.  The name portion of the files is
usually a clincher for what type of profile they are.
Copy them to your Windows folder, in
<drive>:\WINDOWS\system32\spool\drivers\color
and they will be visible to the desktop Settings colour
management "Add" button.

HTH

Message-ID:<gcsqgc$53o$1@registered.motzarella.org>
Subject:

Re: RAW conversion

Date:Sun, 12 Oct 2008 14:27:57 +0100


tyler wrote,on my timestamp of 12/10/2008 4:07 AM:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm trying to import some Nikon RAW photos into Gimp using UFraw. I'm
> having a really hard time getting the color balance right, as what I see
> in UFraw when I hit 'OK' is substantially more subdued than what shows
> up in Gimp shortly after. I have to make the UFRaw image look much
> duller than what I want, because the colors in GIMP become much more
> garish. Is there some way to calibrate UFRaw so that it will give me the
> same colors as what I'm going to see when I get the photo into GIMP?
> 
> My only option at this point is to tweak the UFRaw settings, and then
> import the photo to GIMP, where I find out how far off the colors are,
> then try and fix the UFRaw settings and repeat. This is extremely
> tedious.
> 
> Thanks for any tips,


What you have to do is quite the opposite: profile the
colour of GIMP to match what you are sending from ufraw.

Check what profile your camera is using, usually it's one
of srgb or adobe1998.  Then set the corresponding profile in
GIMP for opening and screen handling and you're away.

Message-ID:<874p3hioc5.fld@apaflo.com>
Subject:

Re: RAW conversion

Date:Sun, 12 Oct 2008 20:51:38 +0100

tyler <tyler.smith@mail.mcgill.ca> wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I'm trying to import some Nikon RAW photos into Gimp using UFraw. I'm
>having a really hard time getting the color balance right, as what I see
>in UFraw when I hit 'OK' is substantially more subdued than what shows
>up in Gimp shortly after. I have to make the UFRaw image look much
>duller than what I want, because the colors in GIMP become much more
>garish. Is there some way to calibrate UFRaw so that it will give me the
>same colors as what I'm going to see when I get the photo into GIMP?
>
>My only option at this point is to tweak the UFRaw settings, and then
>import the photo to GIMP, where I find out how far off the colors are,
>then try and fix the UFRaw settings and repeat. This is extremely
>tedious.
>
>Thanks for any tips,

You've got a problem with color profiles, and the information
provided above doesn't really tell us exactly where.

What profiles do you have UFRAW set for?  It probably makes no
difference which "Input ICC Profile" you use.  (It changes what
you have, but you'll see the change in UFRAW and adjust
accordingly.  No profile is good if the camera is set to sRGB.
Likewise a camera specific profile can be useful if you want
customized results.  Matrix can produce interesting results too.
Selection of these are a decision you'll make for each and every
input image!)

The "Output" profile should be either sRGB or aRGB, though
unless you actually know what you are doing and have a reason to
select aRGB, the only reasonable choice is sRGB (and obviously
that fits this situation).

In UFRAW you also want to set the "Output intent" to Perceptual.

Note that I'm using the bleeding edge version of UFRAW from the
development thread...  and if you have the release version
(0.13?) I'm not sure how these were labeled back then.  If you
can't find it, say so an I'll install an older version and take
a look.

Next you have to set color management in GIMP to match what you
used with UFRAW.  (Again, with GIMP we could have a version
mismatch between what you are using and what I give as examples.
This describes the latest release of the GIMP, version 2.6.1,
and may not exactly match a 2.4 version and certainly will not
match a 2.2 or earlier version of GIMP.)

In GIMP, go to the <Image>/Edit/Preferences/Color Management
menu.

For "Mode of Operation", take your pick...  Print simulation if
you are doing prints and have profiles for you paper/printer
combination; or choose between "Color managed display" and no
color management depending on what you have and which looks best
to you (this is basically a per image configuration issue that
depends on whether the final result is intended to be displayed
as a print or on a computer monitor).

Then select an RGB profile, a CMYK profile, a Monitor Profile,
and a Print simulation profile according to what you have
available.

Note that the "Monitor profile" selection may cause what you see
on the monitor to be different in GIMP than what you see when
viewing an image with other programs.  I would *highly* suggest
that such configuration be avoided.  View an image side by side
with "xv" and GIMP, and match them.  (That means you also need
to have a properly adjusted monitor to start with, or everything
will be off.)

The "RGB profile" can be any of the standard sRGB profiles.
Monitor profile can be one specific to your monitor, or just a
standard sRGB profile.  The CMYK and Print simulation profiles
should be paper profiles.

Set both "Display rendering intent" and "Softproof rendering
intent" to Perceptual.  And set "File open behavior" to "Convert
to RGB workspace".

That may not be precisely the configuration that _you_ need or
want to work with.  For example, if you have a calibrated
monitor and can produce calibrated profiles for your printer and
the papers you use, it would probably be best to shift to aRGB
when editing for prints.  The results will not display correctly
with /xv/, but you'll be able to print more accurately.

But that configuration is one that will work as a baseline to
start from.

-- 
Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)              floyd@apaflo.com

Message-ID:<878wssmv15.fsf@blackbart.sedgenet>
Subject:

Re: RAW conversion

Date:Mon, 13 Oct 2008 15:25:42 +0100


floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) writes:

> tyler <tyler.smith@mail.mcgill.ca> wrote:
>>Hi,
>>
>>I'm trying to import some Nikon RAW photos into Gimp using UFraw. I'm
>>having a really hard time getting the color balance right, as what I see
>>in UFraw when I hit 'OK' is substantially more subdued than what shows
>>up in Gimp shortly after. 
>
> You've got a problem with color profiles, and the information
> provided above doesn't really tell us exactly where.

Thanks for the help!

I now have an acceptable fix, based on the advice received here, but it
will take me a while to process all the information.

I have UFRaw set to use my camera's (Nikon D80) input profile, and sRGB
as the output profile, with 'perceptual' output intent. I then opened up
the colour management dialog in GIMP, and after some experimenting,
determined that changing the monitor profile to match the rgb profile
(both now set to Adobe RGB 1988) produces an image that (nearly) matches
the UFRaw version. I note that Floyd suggested not to do this:

> Note that the "Monitor profile" selection may cause what you see
> on the monitor to be different in GIMP than what you see when
> viewing an image with other programs.  I would *highly* suggest
> that such configuration be avoided.  View an image side by side
> with "xv" and GIMP, and match them.  (That means you also need
> to have a properly adjusted monitor to start with, or everything
> will be off.)

I'm not sure what this means: how do I 'match' them?

Anyways, things look much better, and I'll continue researching this to
try and understand it better.

Cheers,

Tyler

>
> What profiles do you have UFRAW set for?  It probably makes no
> difference which "Input ICC Profile" you use.  (It changes what
> you have, but you'll see the change in UFRAW and adjust
> accordingly.  No profile is good if the camera is set to sRGB.
> Likewise a camera specific profile can be useful if you want
> customized results.  Matrix can produce interesting results too.
> Selection of these are a decision you'll make for each and every
> input image!)
>
> The "Output" profile should be either sRGB or aRGB, though
> unless you actually know what you are doing and have a reason to
> select aRGB, the only reasonable choice is sRGB (and obviously
> that fits this situation).
>
> In UFRAW you also want to set the "Output intent" to Perceptual.
>
> Note that I'm using the bleeding edge version of UFRAW from the
> development thread...  and if you have the release version
> (0.13?) I'm not sure how these were labeled back then.  If you
> can't find it, say so an I'll install an older version and take
> a look.
>
> Next you have to set color management in GIMP to match what you
> used with UFRAW.  (Again, with GIMP we could have a version
> mismatch between what you are using and what I give as examples.
> This describes the latest release of the GIMP, version 2.6.1,
> and may not exactly match a 2.4 version and certainly will not
> match a 2.2 or earlier version of GIMP.)
>
> In GIMP, go to the <Image>/Edit/Preferences/Color Management
> menu.
>
> For "Mode of Operation", take your pick...  Print simulation if
> you are doing prints and have profiles for you paper/printer
> combination; or choose between "Color managed display" and no
> color management depending on what you have and which looks best
> to you (this is basically a per image configuration issue that
> depends on whether the final result is intended to be displayed
> as a print or on a computer monitor).
>
> Then select an RGB profile, a CMYK profile, a Monitor Profile,
> and a Print simulation profile according to what you have
> available.
>
>
> The "RGB profile" can be any of the standard sRGB profiles.
> Monitor profile can be one specific to your monitor, or just a
> standard sRGB profile.  The CMYK and Print simulation profiles
> should be paper profiles.
>
> Set both "Display rendering intent" and "Softproof rendering
> intent" to Perceptual.  And set "File open behavior" to "Convert
> to RGB workspace".
>
> That may not be precisely the configuration that _you_ need or
> want to work with.  For example, if you have a calibrated
> monitor and can produce calibrated profiles for your printer and
> the papers you use, it would probably be best to shift to aRGB
> when editing for prints.  The results will not display correctly
> with /xv/, but you'll be able to print more accurately.
>
> But that configuration is one that will work as a baseline to
> start from.

--

Message-ID:<gd4mlg$n71$1@registered.motzarella.org>
Subject:

Re: RAW conversion

Date:Wed, 15 Oct 2008 14:11:33 +0100

tyler wrote,on my timestamp of 14/10/2008 12:25 AM:
> floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) writes:
> 
>> tyler <tyler.smith@mail.mcgill.ca> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I'm trying to import some Nikon RAW photos into Gimp using UFraw. I'm
>>> having a really hard time getting the color balance right, as what I see
>>> in UFraw when I hit 'OK' is substantially more subdued than what shows
>>> up in Gimp shortly after. 
>> You've got a problem with color profiles, and the information
>> provided above doesn't really tell us exactly where.
> 
> Thanks for the help!
> 
> I now have an acceptable fix, based on the advice received here, but it
> will take me a while to process all the information.
> 
> I have UFRaw set to use my camera's (Nikon D80) input profile, and sRGB
> as the output profile, with 'perceptual' output intent. I then opened up
> the colour management dialog in GIMP, and after some experimenting,
> determined that changing the monitor profile to match the rgb profile
> (both now set to Adobe RGB 1988) produces an image that (nearly) matches
> the UFRaw version. I note that Floyd suggested not to do this:
> 
>> Note that the "Monitor profile" selection may cause what you see
>> on the monitor to be different in GIMP than what you see when
>> viewing an image with other programs.  I would *highly* suggest
>> that such configuration be avoided.  View an image side by side
>> with "xv" and GIMP, and match them.  (That means you also need
>> to have a properly adjusted monitor to start with, or everything
>> will be off.)
> 
> I'm not sure what this means: how do I 'match' them?
> 
> Anyways, things look much better, and I'll continue researching this to
> try and understand it better.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Tyler
> 

Tyler, all workflow components need to be defined for colour
management.  That means the camera, the editor, the monitor
and even the printer, if you intend to print at home.
You can set each to its own profile, in which case you incur
the overhead of a conversion for every step, or you can set
groups of them or the lot to the same profile(s).
I use AdobeRGB for the simple reason it's the best solution
for my specific printer. But the usual for PCs is sRGB: a much
reduced colour profile that seems to match historically the
various monitors available for pcs.  Of course, if you have
a modern lcd quality monitor, you don't have to use sRGB:
there are better options.

But in a nutshell, the important thing is: if you profile
one element of your chain of workflow, you need to profile
all of them.  The monitor is just the last one but also
very important - after all, it's how you see the images!
So, profile it.  This is done in the desktop, right-click,
pick "properties"=>"Settings" tab=>"Advanced" button=>
"Colour management" tab, button "Add".
This will allow you to add a profile to your monitor.

There may be some profiles already loaded in the system and
you can select one that does for example sRGB. Or Adobe.  Or
whatever, provided it gives your system something to aim at.
In Gimp, make sure what you select for display profile matches
the profile in your desktop Settings.

If you do not have any profiles loaded in your system, have
a look in any cd that came with your monitor and see if there
are any files with extensions ".icm" and/or "icc": those are
colour profiles.  If you don't have a cd, try the website
of the display maker.  The name portion of the files is
usually a clincher for what type of profile they are.
Copy them to your Windows folder, in
<drive>:\WINDOWS\system32\spool\drivers\color
and they will be visible to the desktop Settings colour
management "Add" button.

HTH